Notes From a Neuro Nerd: The Science Behind Living Your Best Life

45. A Digital Nomad's Guide to Dealing with Loneliness and Managing Relationships with Jessica Graham

• Austin and Monica Mangelson

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Are you aware that loneliness is a leading cause for travelers to return home and end their journeys? In this episode, we're thrilled to have Jessica Graham, a brand strategist, and copywriter, join us to discuss a digital nomad's guide to conquering loneliness and managing relationships.

Throughout our conversation, we delve into the common challenges faced by digital nomads and travelers when it comes to loneliness.

Join us as we explore Jessica's personal story of her adventure to Liechtenstein and the evolution of her digital business. As an expert in branding, she empowers solopreneurs to incorporate impactful storytelling into their messaging, capturing the attention of their target audience.

You'll learn how to:

  • Maintain strong relationships as a digital nomad
  • Reflect on past challenges
  • Facilitate interaction between people with language barriers 

Connect with Jessica:

Book your FREE discovery call with me!

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Schedule a free Coffee Chat with Monica!

Get access to my Trust Your Gut Decision Making Guide.

Visit me at my home on the web for more resources.

Welcome back everybody to the profitable nomad couple. We are beyond stoked for our conversation today. We have invited a friend of ours. Her name is Jessica. She is a brand strategist and a copywriter who is working and living internationally. She's currently in Liechtenstein. She'll probably correct the way I said that. But it's just, I mean, regardless, it's a fun word to say. But we've been waiting for a long time to have a discussion with somebody like Jessica, because we're going to be talking a lot about relationships while traveling and moving abroad. We're going to be talking about coping with loneliness. And we are super excited because we know that loneliness is such a challenge for so many digital nomads and so many people who are traveling. And it's, if I remember right, I read a study not too long ago. It was the number one reason that travelers return home and stop traveling is because they get lonely. And so we're going to jump into all of that today. But first, Jessica, welcome. And why don't you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us about where you are and what you're doing. Thanks. I'm so excited to be here. I'm Jessica. You did a good intro, so I don't feel like I have to say too much more, except it's Liechtenstein. Thank you. I had to get corrected on that for probably the first year of living here, so don't feel bad. Yeah, so how I got here is a very long story that I feel like maybe we'll get into later, but I've been here for about almost two years. And when I got here was when I also started my digital business. So I started out as a copywriter and it's kind of morphed more into the branding side, and I help busy solopreneurs get their storytelling into their branding and their messaging. And yeah, that's what I'm doing now. Awesome. I love that you focus on the storytelling because as Monica and I have grown our business, that's been one of the simultaneously one of the biggest challenges, but also one of the most exciting parts. Once you can nail your storytelling and get really good at it, then business becomes a lot more fun and it becomes a lot easier to connect with other people because we're all storytellers that hard. 100%. And I also find like before you can tell the story, you really need to know who you're telling it to. So you really need to know who it is that your audience is and why you're like the purpose behind purpose behind your business and like what you're doing. It all kind of weaves together. And yeah, I'm a big believer in storytelling, but that's also like part of my who I am as a person, too. So it's like woven into my my business now, which is awesome. Yeah, that's super awesome. I love that you've been able to create a business that also encapsulates who you are as a person. Sorry, I have a really like my voice is so gravelly, so I'll probably let you know. I know I have my sexy voice on today, so I'll probably be most of the talking, but I would love to hear just a little bit more of your story of how you got how you started traveling. What inspired you to start traveling a little bit maybe of your journey and just kind of an overview of of where how you got here, I guess. Yeah. So growing up, like I always wanted to travel. I always had this fascination with Italy, especially it was just like a thing. And when I got into college, I decided to major in history. I had no direction with that. I just loved sitting in those lecture halls, hearing the stories, being able to read them, writing all the things. And after I graduated, I had no idea what I was going to do with it. So I just continued bartending. And later in my 20s, I was like, OK, I really have to like do something like something. I have to make something happen because I think I kept waiting for something to happen for me. So I knew a couple of friends that had taught abroad and they were they had both taught in China. So I was like asking them like a million questions and they were both like, yeah, anybody can do it. You have a degree. You don't have to be like a teacher. You don't have to have teaching experience. So they kind of planted the seed in me, but I was still way too scared to embark on that by myself. And then later I did meet somebody. I got engaged and he was a teacher. So he actually had family that was already teaching abroad. And so the whole thing kind of came together. He applied for a job in United Arab Emirates. And so I followed him there. Once they found out that I was following him there, they were like, oh, could she teach too? And so it was just like, yeah, let me just try this. I think I could do it. I had been working with kids in a classroom, like as a emotional support kind of person before. So I think they figured like she has a little bit of experience. So that's what took me overseas in 2011. And then I literally thought that that first year I was like, I'll be there for a year and then just go back home. I just want to get this taste. But it was too much of a taste because it's like you're there for, you know, the school year is typically like 10 months. So I felt like by month nine, I had just started to kind of like feel like I had had my footing a little bit more. And I was like, I can't leave now. Like I have to give this another try. And then it just turned into now I've been gone for 12 years, though. And I think forever thing. I think a lot of people are going to resonate with different like multiple parts of your story. First of all, the fact that you this feeling of waiting for life to happen to you and just sitting and waiting, expecting for something external to change and to put you on the track that you want to be on. And then coming to the realization that if that's going to happen, you have to do it yourself. I know Monica and I felt that I know a lot of people who have expressed similar feelings of just like sitting and waiting for something to happen. And then eventually you get to this point where you realize it's not going to happen unless I do it. And then that that, you know, getting that taste of living and working abroad and then having a, you know, it's a plan at first for just a short amount of time. And then once you taste it, like you said, you just can't get enough of it. And then before you know it, you've been living, you know, more than a decade outside of your home country. And yeah, it just happens. It just happens. Exactly. And I think like one of the most surprising parts that I fell in love with was because I've always been like a real connection kind of person. I have very close friends. I've had these friends like since we were kids. And I think going abroad, that was my biggest fear was like, am I going to be able to maintain those friendships while being abroad? Am I going to be able to make new friendships? And I have found making new friendships living abroad has been easier. Like I think a lot of people that I talk to back home, it's like you kind of reach an age where maybe like the only outside people other than like whoever you live with that you interact with are people at work. And that's usually like you go to work, you interact with them at work, but then you don't really do much outside of that. And I feel like when you're an expat, it's like you don't have family. You don't have like those external support kind of people that maybe you grew up with. And so now you have to kind of recreate that in a different way. And so finding new people to connect with and building those relationships, I feel like that's been the best part. I wouldn't say it's easy, but it definitely opens you up to making friendships and connections with people that maybe you never would have expected to kind of make that connection. That's really, really interesting. And I so okay, so I want to ask, I want to dig into that just a little bit more. I personally am much more introverted than Monica, for example. So Monica, if it weren't for her, I would spend a lot more time inside, I would spend a lot more time not talking to people. But thankfully, like we go together really well and she, you know, we balance each other out and she helps me get out there and talk to more people. And I know there's a lot of people who are traveling who like that, the excitement of traveling and moving around, but they're still introverted people and so they still have a hard time making those connections with people. So how would you talk to them? Because I like what you said about it kind of forces you to talk to more people in order to cope with that loneliness. But what if you're somebody who is just naturally less inclined to talk to strangers? Yeah, I actually, so I recently took that Meyer-Briggs test and I'm like 52% extroverted. So I'm like right on that cus. And I feel the same way because I think the first, I would say maybe two years that I was living abroad, it was not, I had my colleagues, of course, when we were working together, it was like you have colleague talk and you're like laughing and having your relationship, but I didn't do much outside of work, kind of the same thing that goes on back home often. But I think what shifted for me was that I really had to do like the internal like what's important to me and what am I missing because there were things like I loved the traveling side, but I felt I was feeling very lonely. I had my husband, but it wasn't enough and I was like I need something more. So that was an intentional choice that I was like, I really had to be more intentional about making friendships and going outside of just being at work with people. So I remember there was a summer that I like really made that choice and when we came back, I was very much intentional about the people who I kind of already knew like, I feel like we could build a relationship or build a stronger friendship. So just making those efforts. I don't think it's, I mean, it's always about like putting yourself in kind of uncomfortable situations at the beginning and just hoping that it gets a little bit more comfortable. But, you know, they're always like, for me, I feel like I always have to have an escape. I'm going to go to this event. I'm going to put myself out there. But after like two hours, if I'm still not feeling it, then, you know, got to go home, wash my hair. Yeah, like have your excuse to leave, but you at least tried. And I think that. That's great. I remember we were just in Vietnam and there was a time we were invited by a friend of ours to go to like a little digital nomad meetup at a restaurant. And I think both Monica and I were not feeling it like we weren't super excited to go we were. We've kind of, especially since COVID. We've been kind of more accustomed to not going out. But we both knew that it would be beneficial that we would meet new people there. And so actually, I think this was the first time we went. And so, same thing like you said, like we built up the courage to go. And we said, you know, we'll spend just a little bit there and then we can come home. But then, because we went there, we met people who ended up becoming really good friends that we hung out with the entire time we were in Vietnam. Through that connection, we met, well, the kind of spider webbed into multiple relationships and connections. So we were both extremely grateful that we went to that one, even though we weren't super feeling it at the beginning. But several things that you said made me think of like making relationships at home, whether you know, even if you're not traveling, it's the same thing. There's this period of time where you're kind of feeling it out for a little bit and you're putting yourself out there. I know at some point, every best friend was a stranger at some point in your life. And so before they can become a good friend of yours, you have to kind of go through this initial somewhat awkward. Do we get along? Do we not kind of thing? Or at least this uncomfortability of just putting yourself out there. I think I've noticed a lot, too, that a lot of times we feel uncomfortable or like we have this desire to go talk to people, but we don't realize that they have that same desire. And so sometimes if we can just be the first person to break the ice, like we can make these beautiful friendships that, you know, never would have happened. But both parties want it to happen, if that makes sense. It's important to just kind of be that first person like to I always like that quote from We Bought a Zoo, where it's like all it takes is 20 seconds of courage or whatever. And the great thing is going to happen and come from it. Yeah, I agree. And I also think like, like I was kind of saying before, when you are traveling or when you're an expat, it's a little easier because the like go to icebreaker is always like, where are you from? Oh, and then there's like follow up questions. So it's like when you're back home working with people, where are you from? Well, chances are you're from the same place. So like what you know, it's like you have to dig for like, what do you like to do? What's your favorite color? Like silly questions. But I think when you're traveling, like those just basic get to know you icebreakers are like so much easier. Yeah, that's true. And you touched on this already. But when you're like when you're making friends in your hometown or where you know where you grow up, a lot of your friends are kind of friends by default. And what I mean by that is their friends that are already in your circle. So whether they're coworkers or friends from church or your neighbors like their friends that are there people that are already kind of put in your life. But when you're traveling, like you said, you have to be a lot more intentional and a lot more active and putting yourself out there. So I'd love to know a little bit more practicality. Where would you go or where have you gone and where do you go to make these connections and to meet new people and make new friends? That's a really good question. So when I first was abroad, like I said, I was teaching and it was easy because you're already in a community of other expats going through the same thing. Like you arrived the same way. You're probably living in the same place. You're working in the same place going through the same visa stuff, all the things. So it's easy to like make that connection. You really don't have to go very far. When I came here, like I said almost two years ago, this was the first time that I lived anywhere where I wasn't immediately plugged in to the expat community. And it took a while for me, like I was because I'm remarried now. So new marriage, new business, new country all at one time. And it was like, I'm just going to take like the bits that I can chew first and then we'll see what happens. So I think it was like probably the first year that I was not meeting people and I wasn't really trying. But I got plugged in from a neighbor who was also American into like a WhatsApp group that was just for like expats living in the area. And so that opened a door that I don't think that would have opened if she didn't invite me. And so through that, like I've met like, you know, there'll be posts of like, let's meet up here. Let's do this. And it's just, again, it's that intention because like if I don't say yes to the invitation, then I'm going to sit here by myself. There are days that I don't want to go and there are days where I'm like at the end of like a hard week. I'm not in the mood to like be social. But since those invitations don't come like all the time, I'm always like, OK, you just have to go. And always like my escape thing of like if it's dull after a couple hours, then just like give yourself permission to leave. But it's never been dull. It's never been a waste of time. I've always enjoyed it. So I think the first thing I would say is just like you have to kind of become more of like a yes person, especially if you tend to be more of a no person. Obviously, with like wisdom, like don't say yes to crazy things. But if it's a invitation, just, you know, a safe invitation, say yes. And then I also think like you have to also take be more like take more initiative because I met some women at some of these functions, some of them I really clicked with. So I had to like follow up, like get their contact, ask them for coffee, like make those intentional efforts. And that's kind of how it's and I feel like, too, since I'm on the cusp of introvert extrovert, I'm more of the type that I like to get to know one person. So like, I love asking someone like you might meet each other in a big setting, but if you really click with one person, then like follow up with like a coffee invitation and just get to know them. And I think that's really been the way that I've like kind of started making more connections here. I love that. I love that because it becomes more personable and you actually connect with somebody rather than the surface level questions like you said, where are you from, what do you do? You actually get to know that person. Yeah, and I'm a big like go deep fast. So usually when we're in those coffees, it's like all of a sudden we're all talking about our childhood trauma and stuff and it's like, you're just bonded right away. I also just love how you have such a strategic way to do it, right? Like you get the invitation, you're like, okay, I'm going to go, but I have my out. First of all, that's such a smart way to get up the motivation to actually go. And then once you're there, you can find the people that you click with and you can get their invitation. And then like a coffee invitation is such like an innocent like who's not going to say no to like a coffee date, you know, like, or who's not going to say yes. That's what I meant. Who's going to say no to like a coffee invite, right? And then you can go like that place to your strength of being more like in the middle of extrovert, introvert where you can really build those one on one connections. So I just really like I just really like that method. That's so awesome. And in my experience, it's, you know, making these connections and being social is very much like a muscle. Like the less you do it, the weaker it's going to get. And then as you when you try and go out again, it's going to be harder because you haven't done it in a while. But every time that you put yourself out there and say yes to an invitation and go to a meetup or a go on a coffee date with somebody. But every time you do it, you're going to get a little bit better at it is going to be a little bit more comfortable. It'll be easier to connect with them and ask questions and share about yourself. And then before you know it, you've worked out that muscle and then it's it's easy. And it's a breeze, even if you are an introverted person who initially or more naturally, that's harder for you to do. It becomes easier with time and with totally. Yeah. And I also find sorry. No, no, go ahead. I also find when you're in those situations, you start learning so much that maybe you didn't know before. Like even me living here with my husband who's lived here for 12 years. God bless him. He like does not know a lot that's going on here. And so when I go to those events and these women are like, oh, yeah, there's this going on here. Oh, I go to this place for this. And you like learn like, oh, so I don't have to like wait to go to America to like get that product. I can just get it right here. You know, like things like that that you start actually learning and then it helps you feel like, OK, this is more homey. Like, I don't feel like such an outsider living here anymore. So, yeah, that's another plus. Yeah. Yeah. OK, I have a kind of an ignorant question. Do they speak English there in Liechtenstein? German is their main language and it's Swiss German. OK. The younger generations learn English in school, but there's not a need for it here. So they don't use it very often. So it's definitely not a place where like I need to learn the language for sure. OK, that's what I was going to ask in order to really plug into the community there and get to know the people you are actively working on learning. Was it Swedish German? Is that you said? Swiss German? Swiss German, yeah. And I'm not actively doing that at the moment, but I should be. And it's on my list. That's OK. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So I know that's a big barrier for a lot of people who don't speak the language of wherever they want to be living or traveling. Like, Monica, we speak Spanish and we've traveled to several Spanish speaking countries and that's always super fun. And it's a lot easier to kind of integrate with the people there. But then our last trip was throughout Southeast Asia. We don't speak Thai or Khmer or Vietnamese. So it was a little bit more challenging. So besides, do you have any tips or suggestions besides just working on learning the language? Is there anything you would suggest for people who are worried about that? About language learning? Yeah, about the language barrier. Yeah, I don't have tips because I'm actually like learning the process myself. I've lived like when I first started out, I was in United Arab Emirates and where that's a very like English heavy place. I mean, everything is translated. Everyone's expected to speak English. And then I went to Vietnam. Same thing where it's like you don't know the language, but they never made you feel like you should know it. It was never expected. And then I moved to China and it was kind of the same thing there. They never expected you to learn Mandarin. But there were quite a few people who did know Mandarin, like on the expat side. So I did make an effort to learn it, but I just language is not it doesn't come easy to me. And my head felt like it was going to explode. So I ended up not attending any more Mandarin classes. And now that I'm here, I'm like, this is the first time where I'm like forced that I have to really learn a language. And it's not been easy. And it's also not been easy because it is a dialect of the main language, German. And so I get a lot of suggestions on how to do it. Like, learn the main German first and then learn the dialect. No, learn the dialect first. And then it's already tough enough. But yeah, so I'm kind of figuring that out as I'm going. That's so interesting. I didn't I mean, you had already told us that it was Swiss German, but I never really thought about the logistics of like learning it kind of a sub dialect or a dialect of the main language. It's really interesting. Yeah, you feel like that language barrier has impeded you making friendships at all? Not so much. And I only say that because I feel like there are certain places, and I don't mean this to offend anyone who might be listening, but there are certain places that like they're not very open to outsiders. And this is one of those places. So I don't feel like I feel like if I wanted to have more of the pleasantries of like you're just at the grocery store and then you can ask like, where is something and do it in German? That would be great. But I don't actually expect that if I knew the language that I would just suddenly have like a huge group of friends. You know, like, you don't expect that learning the language is also going to fix all the problems of making connections. Gotcha. Exactly. Yeah. I think that's really encouraging to know for people who are looking to start traveling and start their digital nomad journey or expat journey to know that you can still make friends, even though you don't speak the language. And while I mean, Austin and I are big proponents of like, of actively learning the culture you're in, it's not something that's going to hinder you from living a full and fulfilled beautiful life in these other countries. 100%. And I think like, as much as you build relationships with other travelers and other expats, it's important still to not morph into just being like in that bubble and not kind of emerging into the local culture too. So I, I definitely know for myself that I want to learn the language, because I think that it will. It's, it will help me but it's also a show of like respect that I'm living here, I should learn what it's like to be from here and communicate. But also like, as a foreigner too, it's important to really like, taste all the food and do what they do and like, you know, don't don't isolate into your expat bubble too much. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really curious to know about your story like meeting your current husband and dating and making the decision to move to Lichtenstein. I know I know I botched that in my head I can hear the way you say it in my mouth can't do it. Yeah, I was actually just going to ask you about that. Monica and I when we first started traveling we were alone but we were our first travel experience was as missionaries for a church and so we weren't looking to find a romantic partner or to date or anything like that and then we got married in Idaho. We started dating in Idaho got married to the states. And then we've been traveling together ever since so personally we don't have any experience with trying to date as a digital nomad or as an expat so we would love you to share about your experience with that. And then just how how can people navigate those challenges of trying to date while traveling and living abroad. Yeah. So, I, I started dating when I was living in China. I had got a divorce and moved to China by myself so that was like my first living abroad experience alone. And for that first year I was not dating at all and just building my little community of friends. And then I decided that second year that I would give it a shot. But I had also never, because I was married before I wasn't like, I didn't know about this online dating stuff I didn't know what it would be like to date abroad so all of it was very new to me. And I figured out that living there it was beneficial to be online dating because it just opened the door to being able to meet people. And so I was on Tinder, and it was kind of a fun experience because you're meeting a lot of people who are also expats who might not like even live there but they're just traveling through there. So I met a lot of people through that like, not romantically but just like meeting up for a coffee or a drink or whatever. And like hearing their stories and you're like, wow, like it was just like really cool because it kind of put this whole new perspective into everything. And then, a while after doing that that's when I met my husband on the app. And he was traveling through China. It was before the pandemic happened, we had been talking for a little bit. And I went to go travel outside of China, because it was a holiday. So a girlfriend and I went to travel, he had gone home already. And then the pandemic broke out and we were actually never able to go back into China. Gosh. Yeah, so I ended up like coming here, making a long story short. So I ended up in Liechtenstein, what for what I thought was going to be maybe two weeks while I waited it out to go back into China. And that turned into seven months. And thankfully we really liked each other. Otherwise, that would have been a nightmare. Yeah. And so I would say that I, as far as a dating experience, I think my dating experience was very unique, that it was like pretty short and just kind of like, oh, it's fun. You're meeting people from all over and then you meet your husband. So I wouldn't say I definitely, I have other friends that have been dating while living abroad and they'll date, like, they go on a holiday and they put their Tinder on and they meet new people in this new place. And it's a whole different experience. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Have you, have you and your husband ever had to maintain a relationship like long distance for a long period of time? Yeah. So after I was here for those seven months, I wasn't able to go back to China for another school year like I had planned. So I needed to find another job. And I ended up going back to UAE. So I was in UAE for a year and he was here. So we had a year of long distance during that time. Okay. Yeah, that'd be a year. That's a long time to be going long distance. Yeah. So he came to visit me because you know, when you're a teacher, you have nice long holidays broken up. So even though it was pandemic time, we were able to still make it work. So he was able to visit me. I was able to visit him. So we at least got to see each other a couple times during that year. That's good. So how, so how else apart from those vacations and being able to go see each other like what, what's the word just left my mind. What recommendations I guess would you have or tips would you have for people who are in a long distance relationship like how, how can they build and maintain it while they're so far apart? That's a good question. So I think for us what worked is obviously having like FaceTime and zoom where you can like see each other that makes a big difference. What I say, especially with friendships like maintaining friendships while abroad because I feel like a romantic relationship to maintain it while you're apart is a little bit easier because it's like they are a priority and you're always like you're planning a life together. So you kind of have to like communicate more but with a friendship back home let's say. I, I have always made very intentional effort to like maintain those friendships because they're very important to me. I know some people who are kind of more of the like out of sight out of mind not in a like ghosting way and not in a mean way like if you see each other again you're able to like reconnect again but it's just like if you're not in my immediate everyday thing it's really hard to like talk. So I always tried to like really be the person that like if someone pops in my head I just like grab my phone and just send them a quick text or DM and just let them know like hey I'm thinking about you how are you. So I do that a lot like to maintain friendships and relationships even though we're apart. And then when I was teaching I think it was kind of easier because you have the summer holiday every year where they would like fly you home so you didn't have to pay for that. So I always would like return home and it would be like a summer reunion. Now that I don't have that anymore. It is a little bit different, but I feel like I am now living in a place where people want to come visit for the first time. I don't know where else they're lived they're kind of like I want if I was going to travel I would go to Italy and I'm like okay cool well Italy is just right there so now you can come. So yeah so it's like I hope that I like I have my stepsister coming to visit next week so she'll be the first American visitor to come see and then maybe she'll spread the word and get some more people to come. There you go so you're saying you got to live in in fun and enticing places that they want to come see you. Exactly or you just have to go home and see them. Yeah, no that's awesome I like I like what you said about you know if someone pops in your head just shoot them off a text or voice message because we've done like scheduled calls or game nights with some of our friends back in the States and we're traveling, which is super fun but it's a lot more structured that way so just having that relationship where you're just sending a message here and there as you think about them or as something comes to mind. I really like that approach. Yeah. Yeah, and I have a couple friends that like we voice each other, almost every day like just check ins. And it's really important like it's easier when you're on the same time zone, but if you're not like too far apart, it's doable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and thank goodness for technology that allows us to do that. Yeah, I definitely feel like traveling has made our, our friendships evolve but it's also made them so much more intentional. So like we have lost some friendships but it's been more like the surface like co-worker type friendships but like the really deep ones that matter. We spend a lot more time investing in them and we've noticed that people invest back, like the more effort we put in the more effort they put in. So it's really fun to to watch kind of our friendships evolve into these deeper more meaningful friendships as well as gaining new friendships everywhere we go. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, such a such a cool part of travel. I really want to circle back around to something you mentioned in the very beginning of this conversation, where you talked about the importance of doing the inner work. I would love for you to just kind of talk. Could you just explain that a little bit more maybe? Yeah, so, I'm a very reflective person. I think there was a point in my life in my late 20s where I had been kind of reacting to a lot of life's things and not, not taking ownership of a lot of things and also not healing from things that I should have, not should have, but I think that's what I was trying to do. I was trying to get things that needed to have been healed. So I got some counseling and some other things during that time that I think like set me up for now. So, I think really it's just like when I say inner work, it's a lot of reflective things like I like to just kind of think about like, what are things that might be triggering me? What are things like if I feel like I'm upset or if I have anxiety around something or something like, you know, made me feel shame or whatever, whatever that trigger is, I need to go back and kind of like reflect on that. So, in that like reflection and just growing and yeah, doing a lot of like spiritual work, like, I feel like those are the things that set me up later to be able to be like, these are the things that I need. And I realized like, as I got older, especially now, it's, it's apparent to me of like, what's important to have in my life that aren't necessarily like tangible things. Like, I know, especially in this digital online space, it's a lot of like 10,000 months and like, get that car that you want and your dream house and like, those things are great, but I feel like I really had to go into what is really truly important to me and what fuels me. And like, those things are just like connection is something that's like, if I don't have connection, it's like a lifeline is being pinched. And freedom is, and freedom can mean a lot of things, but it's just kind of that sense of like, just, you're not stuck somewhere. And it's not stuck somewhere, it's even stuck like in a relationship or just stuck financially, like just having freedom. So those are things that like, if I reflect back on something that might have upset me, I have to see like, was it aligning with that? Like, was it fueling the connection? Was it fueling the freedom? Was it fueling this? And if it's not, then it's something that's like, there's a misalignment there. So that's kind of what I think that I meant when I said inner work. Do you journal these things? Do you write them down when you do this reflection work? Yeah, I journal a lot. Well, it kind of comes in waves. Like sometimes I'll do a lot of journaling and then I'll not do it for a long time. But I have noticed when I do journal and I'm better at it, things feel like they fall into place a little bit easier. Yeah, do you do this? Like as those feelings come up? Do you take time like step away and write them down? Or do you have like a routine where every morning or every evening you sit down for a little bit and journal? What does that look like? Yeah, I try to do an every morning thing. Like kind of setting your intention for the day reflecting on the day before. But there are like recently I feel like I've been more conscientious and intentional with like in the moment if something triggers me because I'm trying to also kind of realize what my patterns are because there are patterns. And so I think in the moment when you can stop and just like I just have a note in my phone, hopefully no one will ever see it. And then you just like jot it. Did you know that you can get a password on notes? That's true. I learned that like a week ago. Yeah, so just jot it down really quick and then kind of see like go back through. It's a good it's not like I don't always think about it in the moment. But these are things that later I'm like, oh yeah, I should have done that or oh yeah, this makes sense now just took way longer than you know. Yeah, that's good though. And I so okay, one more like little specific practical question. So you said you do your journaling and note taking stuff on your phone. Have you noticed any difference doing it on a phone versus like physically writing down in a book or a journal or anything like that? Oh, yeah, I do journal like the morning stuff is always handwritten because I have to get it out. But the kind of if I'm in the moment and reflecting on something, I just like take the phone. And I think when I write it's I mean, I have so many journals when I went home. Because I had left a storage unit back in America that I just always kept there because I was like one day I'm going to return and I'm going to need this stuff and every year it got a little smaller because I was like, I don't need this stuff. But I always kept my books and my journals. So when I went back in December, I cleared everything out and I like shipped all the things that I wanted to keep here and it was just so many journals that I'm like, I don't know what to do with these but I don't want to throw them away. Yeah, you can't get rid of them. Yeah. That's why I asked because a lot of I mean, I've I've I struggle with this all the time. We're like, I feel like I get more out of my journaling when I do it physically in a book. But then, I mean, same exact problem. You have this book now that you have to either carry around with you everywhere you go or store somewhere. And so probably the past like two years, I've bounced back and forth while do some journaling at, you know, pen and paper and then I'll go and and find like on my nose page or something do it on my phone. Another thing I haven't done this yet, but I would imagine could be helpful for a lot of people would be like voice memos or voice messages to yourself that you store on your phone. Yeah, I do that. I just started doing it and it's been like the best practice. Yeah, just like, let it all out and just whatever comes to mind say I've done that. I've only done it like two or three times but it has been really nice. Just to kind of let your thoughts flow at the speed that you can speak them. Yeah, it is good and I feel like I've gone back to those notes and listen to them again and actually got something out of it because sometimes it is it's just all in your head. I'm a, I like to talk things out. And sometimes there's things that you don't want to necessarily talk out with a person or like you're not looking for feedback or like a solution. You're just looking for an ear. And I think voice notes is like the new new year. Yeah, turn yourself into your own. Yeah, exactly. That's a good one. And maybe if you have all those if you do really prefer journaling like physical books maybe just ask a good friend of yours to hold on to him while you're traveling. I'm trying to think of ways to What's the word? I don't know just ways to make that work if that's what works best for you. Yeah, I think that's actually so good because like I said I had so many and I'm saying like so many from before I moved abroad and then when I was abroad I would like take them back with me and put them there. I think one of the most recent things that I did with my journal that was like kind of revolutionary for me was at the beginning of the year going back through last year's journal and like highlighting like what were the things that you were struggling with what were the things that you were wanting what were the things you know whatever it was. And really being able to like come back to okay last year I did this and I accomplished this and this is how I grew and this is like still something that I'm working on and this was working and this wasn't working. And it was a really tangible way of going back and reflecting on something. So that's another reason why I don't think I can throw these things away. Yeah, you don't want to I mean those are all really precious very special things to hold on to. I've noticed that prompt you just said asking yourself to look back on the things that you struggled with a year ago or half a year ago and then how you kind of worked through that. I've noticed that that really helps as you're going through current challenges because when you look back at a challenge that you were facing a year ago. Oftentimes I've noticed I'll look back at that and think it's just interesting that that was such a struggle for me at the time because like the current me would have it like it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. And so whatever problems you're going through right now just think about like okay the me from a year from now what are they going to think about this problem what are they going to have done to fix it. Yeah, so I like that prompt. We are coming up on time, which is a bummer because I feel like we could just talk with you for hours and hours there's lots of different tangents that I want to go off on and talk about. I feel like you have so much insight and you, you just feel so wise I feel like you have so many things to share with us with our audience and so I wish we could keep going and just keep talking. Maybe we'll just have to have you on again in the future and talk more about this stuff because it's really really good. I would love it. Yeah, thank you. I would love to. Have me on anytime. Before we go though I would love for you to just share a little bit more about what you offer for it just in case there's anyone in our audience who who really want to work with you and then also just shout out how people can connect with you as well. Oh, thank you. Yeah, so I actually just launched a new offer that I'm really excited about. It's called email through storytelling, and I work with my clients on channeling into their own experiences and how we can connect that with your offer through storytelling writing in your email. And I really, I think that it's very effective because I think storytelling such a human connection tool. And so, yeah, and other than that I offer brand voice guidelines website copy. And you can connect with me I'm always on Instagram so Jessica Graham dot brand studio, and my emails Jessica Graham brand studio.com. Thank you so much for sharing that we're going to have those links for people who are interested. I feel like that's something we could use so we're definitely going to be looking into what you have. Yeah, so thank you so much again Jessica for coming on and just chatting with us and going off on all these different tangents it's been such a pleasure meeting you and talking today. It was my pleasure. Thank you so much. I'm so happy to meet you guys. I hear your voices all the time and now it's like the face of the voice. Yeah, so thank you.

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Austin Mangelson

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Monica Mangelson

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